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1944 ford 2n: turns over fine and runs for 10-20 min then dies

Nathanial My ford 1944 2n turns over fine but will only run for 10 to 20 min, then dies. After the first 10-20 min it will start-up then die right away. It sputters, back fires, and behaves like its not getting air or fuel. any suggestions?
P.S.
All gas in Iowa has ethanol in it and my brother said to use seafoam gas treatment in my fuel, is this OK? because i did.

any help would be great thanks Nathanial

BobV KS 1. Ignition switch cutting out
2. Restriction in fuel flow
3. Spark problems

Fuel itself probably not the problem unless it has water in it.

Bob G Gas here in Oregon has the ethanol in it and I do not use any treatment.

The first thing I would do is check the ful flow thru the carb. With shutoff valve open two turns remove the plug on the bottom of carb and measure the amount of fuel flow. You should be able to fill a pint jar in 2 to 3 minutes. Don't just pull the plug and see fuel and say it is is ok. let it run and catch it. If it slows down to a dribble then you have a plugged filter or stand pipe on top of the sediment bowl. Remember there are three screens. One in the tank, one in top of sediment bowl and one on the elbow going into the carb.
If your fuel flow is good, as soon as it dies check for spark at the plugs.
Good luck


Nathanial OK so i "think" i might have a small clog in my fuel line ahead of my fuel filter. I "think" the reason my tractor is dieing is a lack of fuel because I'm draining the filter reservoir faster than it can fill.
Any good ideas on a way to clean the line? or should i replace it with tubing? i cant just buy a new line because one of the previous owners added a filter to the line. or should i get a new line and ditch the filter?

oh man so-many questions sorry any ideas would be great thanks Nathanial

Nathanial thanks that's the kind of info i needed. i will do that right now you! gentlemen have been supper helpful
thanks

Bob G If it was mine I would ditch the filter and replace with new steel line especially if a rubber hose was used. Hot manifolds and rubber hoses do not mix. You can buy the ready made fuel line or use steel brake line if you can make the flares.
Some fuel filters are made to use with a fuel pump and may not work on a gravity feed system on the Ns.

Jim Loveridge I would get rid of the in-line filter. It's not necessary and is just a restriction for fuel flow. purchase a length of fuel hose and a couple of clamps from an auto supply store and put that in place of the filter. Keep us up to date on your progress.
mark sr I used brake line for the fuel line on my NAA. I like the steel line because it doesn't rot or come loose. Assuming the 2N is set up like my tractor [filter at the tank, sediment bowl and another in the carb I can't see the need for an inline filter.
Nathanial I started at the sediment bowl and found that it was trickling fuel into the fuel line. So I cleaned it up and turned the valve back on and it flowed nicely but my gasket was rotted away so I had to order a new gasket and screen (combo purchases from ebay $3.99)so I have to wait tell I've gotten the parts to put it all back together and check the rest of the fuel line.
I'm thinking that the seafoam must have freed a lot of sediment in the tank or it was not used much by the previous owners and i shook it lose during my use.
I will follow all your advice and ditch the filter the gas we use is cleaner than the gas that was used back in 44 and they didn't use one.
i will update when i get the parts hopefully on Thur and let you all know if this was the issue or if its a different one.
Thanks again Nathanial

mark sr While you're waiting, remove the filter where the gas line enters the carb and make sure it's clean. Compressed air can be used to verify the disconnected gas line is clear.
Jim Loveridge Also, while you're waiting, I would pull the whole shut-off valve assembly out of the tank and check the screen there. I think that screen is only used when low on gas and the valve is opened fully though.
Bob G If you pull the sediment bowl assy to check the screen, also check the stand pipe. I had one that got plugged. Like Jim said the screen only protects the aux fuel.
mark sr I would add that if there is any gas in the tank when you pull the sediment bowl assembly - it will run out! Probably not recommended but I have pulled it and immediately put my thumb over the opening to stop the flow. You need to either have a helper or have your carb cleaner and anything else you might need in reach of our free hand.
Nathanial ok i replaced the fuel line and replaced the whole sediment bowl assembly. I tried to start the engine.... the fan spun and it would make the ree ree noise but no combustion. then i looked to make sure i wasn't leaking and saw that my carburetor was leaking through the bottom overflow plug. i'm in the process of draining the carburetor and trying to see if i just flooded it any ideas would be great it always started and ran fine other than not getting gas
Bob G Bottom overflow plug? Did you have the drain plug out? It has to be installed. Got Pictures?
They can be easy to flood.

Bob G If it is draining fuel from the cintered drain, then you either flooded it or the float is stuck open

Nathanial
Re: 1944 ford 2n: turns over fine and runs for 10-20 min then dies

so i pulled the drain plug (A) to help drain all the excess gas because it was leaking from (B)
hope the pic works

Nathanial now could i have ruined a part yesterday when i pulled my sediment bowl assembly off. (gas did splash on the left side then i rinsed it off when i was done installing the new one and the fuel line)
Jim Loveridge That part marked 'B' is a plug that holds a felt strainer in place. It shouldn't be leaking from there. Make sure it's tight. You might have to remove it and put it back in using some kind of sealer.
Nathanial
Re: 1944 ford 2n: turns over fine and runs for 10-20 min then dies

ok so "A" is a switch that the previous owner installed, its feeling very wallaby and i don't know if its working. if this switch is bad will it still make the reer reer sounds and fan move but not turn over? should i replace? could it be causeing my issue?

Nathanial ok not the switch i removed it tried to start it then reinstalled it
Bob G The part marked A is the drain plug which has to be installed. B is either a cintered bronze plug or a felt drain filter. If you have excess fuel in the carb throat then it will drain out of B. That is what it is for. If it runs out all the time, then the carb float is not shutting off the fuel flow like it should. If it just leaks fuel after trying to start it, you are probably flooding it.

If your ignition switch is bad it will still crank over. It is an ignition switch. turn it on and check for spark at the spark plug.
Don't get into the habit of just replacing parts. It can get expensive. If you have a volt meter check the voltage at the coil. or on both sides of the ing switch with it off then on.

By geetting rid of the fuel blockage you probably changed how much choke is required when starting.

I have two 8ns and they both require different choke usage. I like to start charking and if it does not fire, give it apull on the choke. if it fires I have to get on and off the choke until it warms up a bit. If I fload one, I usually just walk away for a hour or so and then when I go back she will fire right up. Just remember to turn ign switch off.
Good luck


Bob G
Re: 1944 ford 2n: turns over fine and runs for 10-20 min then dies

Picture of the bottom of a ms tsx 241b showing the cintered drain and drain plug.

Nathanial well i think i might be out of my depth, both in Knowledge and skill. i pulled a spark-plug to see if i was getting a spark upon turn over and no spark was visible so I'm guessing that's why no ignition. what happens if the ignition switch is left on? (just wondering if i may have not switched it off at some point for a long time)
Bob G If the switch was left on it usually drains the battery but can also damage the points. Might be time for a set of points. Was the switch on when you tried to check for spark at the plugs?

Do you have the FO-4 service manual? good instructions on most everything.

Nathanial
Re: 1944 ford 2n: turns over fine and runs for 10-20 min then dies

this is the manual i have. well i dropped the switch when i was messing around with it so not sure which way is on or off but i tested the spark plugs both ways (i was hoping to fix my switch when i saw the spark )

what are the points?

Nathanial i have the fuel issue all taken care of at lest as far as i can go tell i can get it running and adjust the flow
Bob g http://www.ntractorclub.com/howtos/pdfs/Timing-Front-Mount-Distributor.pdf

look in your manual for the instructions for the distributor. should be a section on replacing the points. If not buy an FO-4 service manual. It is not hard to replace the points but you have to pay attention to detail.

The points are in the distributor. thye open and close to cause a flow of electrical current thru a coil. when they open, the colapsing magnetic field causes a high voltage spike in the secondary field of the coil. Do a google search for an ignition coil and find out lots you never wanted to know.

Jim Loveridge I guess I gave you bad info. on the plug in the bottom of the carb. I see that your original ignition switch is missing. It used to be in that hole on the side of the steering column. So I would have to guess that the toggle switch under that orange thing you marked 'A' is the on and off switch. What is that orange thing anyway?
Nathanial its a flip cover for the switch like in jet planes to keep you from flipping the switch on accident. last owner installed it
Nathanial
Re: 1944 ford 2n: turns over fine and runs for 10-20 min then dies

ok i removed my Distributor then removed the coil Assembly from the top and felt something snap.... the wire curl ("C") was wielded to Spot "D" on the Distributor Assembly (see pic in next post) did i just break my coil? or other another part?

Nathanial
Re: 1944 ford 2n: turns over fine and runs for 10-20 min then dies

pic for last post

Nathanial I'm going to install new spark plugs and cables, points, condenser, rotor and Gaskets. Do the ignition over-hall while i have the tractor apart. Am i missing a part? let me know thanks guys the help has been great.
Bob G I am not a expert on the front mount dist by any means, but if the spring was welded to the contact I would think tht was a problem.
new tune up parts will be good and if you get it running and it dies, then just as soon as it dies check for spark. don;t wait, jump off and check for spark. The square coils are known to quick working when they get hot. Then work again when they cool down. I would not buy a new coil until I could prove the old one bad. I don't like to throw money at problems.

Make sure you geet the right wire to the right spark plug. fireing order is 1.2.4.3 with number one being closest to the radiator. Dist cap is marked also.
good luck

Nathanial thanks for the info bob my old plugs and wires are old and showing wear so they need to be replaced, my new parts should be in by wed. will let you all know how it turns out.
Nathanial so i installed new plugs, cables, points, condenser, rotor and Gaskets. i also installed a key ignition (that way I'm not as likely to leave the ignition on again.)
no spark.....
i got a new coil for a spare just in-case my old one was a bad part. swapped it out still no spark.
when i turn my ignition key to the off position my batter gauge is at 0 when i turn the switch to on it wiggles then goes back to 0. Is this correct?
the engine still turns over just no ignition.

Ernie S I have an 8N, front mount distributor and had a similar problem. Changed out the coil because coils will notoriously become faulty if left “on” (ignition on, points closed, not running) for a period of time. This discharges the battery through the ignition coil via the points. I changed out the coil but still had a problem. Finally pulled the distributor while noting the position of the rotor. Changed out points, condenser, rotor, cap and coil. Assembled on the bench using all the proper gaskets. Noted the rotor position prior to installing the cap (marked the engagement cog on the distributor shaft) and reinstalled the distributor. Double checked all the wiring to make sure everything was okay. Changed out the resistor with an off-the-shelf Chrysler-type and hooked up all the wiring. Then I installed a simple weather-proof toggle switch on the dash and put a shunt across the ignition resistor. When I start the tractor I flip the switch up to bypass the resistor. Tractor now starts fine and I just flip the bypass switch off after it starts. Problem apparently solved.


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