| | SSB Farm Tractor Parts, Manuals & Antique Tractors | | Aftermarket Tractor Parts | | Tractor Service & Repair Shop Manuals | |
| | Tractor Implements | | Tractor Seats | | Trailer Parts | | Tractor Loaders | | PTO Generators | | Rear View Backup Camera | |
| | Pedal Toy Tractors | | Tractor Books | | Antique Farm Tractors Blog | | Antique Tractors History | | Rustic Home | |
| How much is your farm tractor worth? Find resale prices for tractors built from 1939 and 2008, with complete specifications and serial numbers. Save 10% on our Official Tractor Blue Book sale! |
Search This Message Board:
JOHN DEERE 180- PROGRESS TODAY
| NICK DIMEGLIO | Hi dale, I made some progess this morning,I found a corroded contact on the neutral switch connector, cleaned it and now the tractor trys to start with the key switch. However, there is no spark at the plug? I am concerned that the BM 11 mounted on the engine is shorted? I can buzz the terminal to the case, is that ok? what other hints can you give me? I do appreciate your help alot, I owe you big time!!! Thanks Nick |
| Dale G. Basgall | Nick : The big thing is your not giving up and that's important cause you realize now sometimes as simple as it ends up to be can take alot of time and thinking to get it repaired. What engine do you have in that one ? Dale G. Basgall |
| Nick DiMeglio | Hi Dale, thanks for the reply. the engine is a Kawasaki 17 hp model FC540. I now got a new spark plug and still not spark. The bell housing was really rusted so i cleaned off the magnetic tab and i cleaned the coil area, it was rusted also. what is the gap on the coil/bellhousing? Is there a way to check the coil? I do have another 14 hp Kawasaki engine and I am swapping parts to see if I find the problem. I have narrowed it down to either a bad coil or a short to ground, not letting it fire, do you agree? On the coil there is a tab, with a black wire on it is that the shorting connection to turn off the engine? I am ready to buy a pair of goats!!! Thanks |
| Nick DiMeglio | Hi Dale, It has a Kawasaki model FC 540. Right now I have no spark,removed and clean the bell housing and coil still nothing. I switch the igniter with one from my other tractor( the same part) BM11 still nothing.How can I check the coil? Thanks |
| Nick DiMeglio | Hi Dale 8/20/09 I made progress, got the engine to start. You wouldn't believe, they sent me the wrong pto switch and it was shorting the whole system out. However, with the old switch it starts but the engine cutoffs when I turn the pto switch on for the blades to cut? I checked the new ignition switch to the schematic and it matches, so I guess it can't be that? Thanks Nick |
| Dale G. Basgall | Nick : If the brake switch circuit is closed and or the seat switch open that will happen, so make sure the park brake switch is open or in other words the brake is unlocked and make sure when you set on the seat the seat switch is closed or in other words the switch is being fully pressed in. Dale G. Basgall |
| Nick dimeglio | Dale Seems like there is no brake switch circuit on this one, manule tranny. So if i engage or disengage the engine will start. Theissue here is when i start it and then engage the pto the engine cuts out? damn, this driving me nuts!!! Please be patient and try to help as you have in the past, thanks NICK |
| Nick DiMeglio | Dale, I checked the seat switch, it operates corecctly( when your on the seat it is open and then when you get off it shorts the engine to ground. That is it closes. There is no brake switch on my unit, I have a manual shift with a neutral switch. Is that correct? Right now I suspect the new ignition switch, although it operates corredtly is not in sink with the PTO switch ( which is the old one that was on the tractor. Could this be true? Everything seems to work ok except, when I turn on the pto switch, the engine dies. Thanks for your patience and help. Nick |
| Dale G. Basgall | Nick : I believe "all" John Deere units have a brake switch, yours may have been removed, I am going to look it up in the pars book right after I get offline. Anyway that pto situation I believe is related to the brake switch because that is exactly what they do when the brake is depressed and you turn on the pto. I will look to make sure. Dale G. Basgall |
| Dale G. Basgall | Nick : I just looked up the electrical and it does not show a "Brake switch" for that unit. It does show a neutral start switch into the transmission, have you replaced or tested that switch yet. I saw a double pole double throw pto switch and a simple ignition switch not like some of the mowers with a printed circuit board for all the safety stuff. Have you tried unplugging the pto wire terminal down at the pto clutch and try the same thing out . Turn on the engine and act as if your ready to mow and turn on the pto switch and see if the unit dies, "without" the pto wiring plugged in and with the pto switch as it is now. Dale G. Basgall |
| Nick DiMeglio | Hi Dale, Thanks, on monday I will check the pto,( disconnect and see if the engine stays on. Do you know if a pto off of a 14 hp Kawasaki Engine can be used if that is the problem? Nick |
| Nick DiMeglio | Hi again Dale, I am headed for some R&R for the weekend, but thought I would not be happy if I didn't check first. I disconnected the PTO connector and it reacts the same I start the engine, runs fine but cuts out when pto switch is turned on. I think Monday I take the harness apart and check for a wire shorted to ground? I take it all black wires go to ground, right? I am not a basket case yet!!! thanks again for your help and patience. Nick |
| Nick DiMeglio | Hi Dale, I got an idea, should i try it? Now that the tractor runs with the PTO switch off, how about if I wire the disconnect pto part of the wiring thru another switch, maybe a fuse directly to the battery? If you say yes what how many amps should the fuse be? The only other thing i could thinks of is checking the entire harness for a short to ground? Please let me know? thanks Nick |
| Dale G. Basgall | Nick : It is not good to wire around the safety circuits on any impliment, you could get injured. So anyway what this is simply boiling down to is that we need a schematic of the electrical system and after all the stuff you went through we can most likely pinpoint the problem or cause. It definitely sounds like a safety cutout or relay of some kind. The pto has a resistance reading of I think somewhere around 79 ohms which divided by battery voltage would be around 5 amps so I would try a 10 amp fuse to start, it sounds like your pto clutch solenoid is good though. Dale G. Basgall |
| Nick DiMeglio | Hi Dale, since I could get the tractor going and still had the problem with the engince cuttting out when the pto switch was turned on. I installed a temporary circuit direct fron the battery witha a 25 amp fuse in line and it blew and the blue wire going to the pto clutch got real hot. there is a good ground on the black wire coming off the pto. So, I am begining to think the pto clutch coil is shorted. In the begining, rmember I told you the 25 amp fuse holder got hot, I am assuming a heavy current draw? Now, that i went direct to b+ on the battery the same thing happened with the pto connector, it melted. Tomorrow, I will disassemble the pto of my old John Deere 175 and pray to god it matches and that this will cure it? I looked at the prices of new ones, OMG they are expensive!!! Wish me luck and thanks again. Nick |
| Dale G. Basgall | Nick : Your not going to like this one, i looked in the parts book and wow the 175 and 180 has alot of serial number breaks for the pto switch and what type of pto you have, anyway it doesn't appear that they are the same, shoot. Did you wire it from the pto clutch itself on the housing to your new switch or did you use the existing wiring and attach a new switch? I wish you could remove the old one and take a resistance check on it. That would let you know immediately if that clutch wiring is causing your problem. Dale G. Basgall |
| Nick DiMeglio | Hi Dale, I will remove the pto clutch assembly today and do the resistance check on it. I will let you know later of my findings. I really think the pto is shorted and is causing the whole problem. Well, if nothing else I now know how the tractor ticks. I am doing alot of preventive maint. along the way. It's kind if tough cutting over 1 acre of grass at 69yrs old with a 20 " walk behind. I will change that soon, I am sure. Thanks again- Nick |
| bontai Joe | Nick, I am proud of you for sticking with this. I am sorry I am of no help on these electrical gremlins, but you are in good hands with Dale.
|
| Dale G. Basgall | Nick & bontai : Hey I am getting like see nile and that is not in Egypt. Anyway a late night and not proof reading has again caused me to back up a knotch. I did the resistance thing backwards it is simply Current draw= volts divided by ohms and not the opposite as I indicated by an amp reading in the previous reply. So Nick if your pto clutch has 48 ohms of resistance you divide that into the voltage 12 and you should be drawing 1/4 amp or 250 milliamps. A milliamp is one thousandths of one amp, I like it cause it's like machining in thousandths of an inch 250 thousandths = 1/4 inch and so on. Anyway Nick if your pto clutch is holding in and the resistance is what it is supposed to be the clutch may not be your problem, I hope it isn't they are expensive. Maybe if it is bad we could find a used one off of a mower that the deck has rotted off. Oh well we are going to get this one fixed one way or another. It's these interesting pain in the but problems that are fun to figure out but it doesn't sound like fun until it's fixed for little cost insread of a house payment. Dale G. Basgall |
| Nick DiMeglio | Ho Dale/Joe I took off the PTO from my 180 and it is gone, I mean burnt you can smell it. Tomorrow I will attempt to take the one off my old 175 and see if it matches. this one is a OGURA (TOKYO-JAPAN) MA-GT-JD19 12 VDC. I am thinking,(and that's dangerous) if the bore dimensions are the same, plus pulley and height it should work right? They both should be 12 vdc. Shoot, at 69 i guess i will be cutting the 1 acre plus again with a walk behind rotary. good exercise I guess!!! I refuse to let it get me down!!! regards, Nick |
| NICK DIMEGLIO | Hi Dale, I am over anxious to get this tractor mowing, so I took the PTO off my JD 175 and it doesn't match up the bore is too small. I found a new one on e-bay for $179.00, the guy claims it will fit. the p/n is AM123123-borg 5214-34. I am wondering, how can I be sure? I also found a used one on e-bay for a staring bid of $35.00 but I am not sure if that is the right thing to do? Now, I feel sort of trapped. Can i tighten up on all the bolts on this one just to get my lawn cut? I realize that when i start the engine the blades with also turn. Give me your advise, please. thanks Nick |
| bontai Joe | By tightening the bolts, I am figuring that you are eliminating the "clutch" function and going with a direct drive, blades on all the time. That's a lot of stuff for the starter to spin to get it started, plus it is dangerous, but if you are VERY cautious in operating, AND IF the starter will even spin all of that, I suppose you can get an emergency cutting out of it. Just please be carefull. Dale has better knowledge and access to Deere part numbers than I have, he would be better able to match up what clutch you need to your tractor than I can. Don't be in a hurry to throw the old one out before you check if you have a local shop that rewinds/rebuilds alternators or starters and see if thay can fix it and how much it would cost.
|
| Dale G. Basgall | Nick : The AM123123 is the correct # according to the JD online parts. Would you like to know the retail price of it of has your local JD dealer already told you, I didn't even think about looking for the price after I saw all the serial # breaks on it. I use a place in Washington, Sumner Tractor they have been in the JD buisness for 54 years and used to be on John Deere drive. There is a parts guy Loren that is a cut above any other parts guys I have ever met. They are open 7days a week and their 800# is 800-422-5723 they are JD's flagship store and can be found at http://sumnertractor.com Dale G. Basgall |
| Dale G. Basgall | Nick : Loren just came out to visit me yesterday, since I am on Maui in Hawaii you most likely won't be able to get him until this next Monday, in case you need some assistance. Dale G. Basgall |
| NICK DIMEGLIO | Hi Joe & Dale Thanks for your sincere concern on safety and your advise. I may just spring for a new pto after all. I bought the JD 189 used for $500.00 this spring and spent about $100.00 for odds and end to fix it. It ran good for awhile, and seems to be in real good shape. I went back to the guy i bought it from, he deals with used tractor and he had a used one, but wanted over $100.00 for it. I located a new one in the original box for $179.00 and bought it this morning, its on the way here. Let's hope all this effort pays off. I will keep you guys posted, And really thanks for your help. regards Nick |
| Nick DiMeglio | Hi Dale, Well, as you know the old PTO went up in smoke, so I decided to look for a used one and found one for$100.00 ( from the guy that sold me the tractor) and then found a new one on e-bay for $179.00. I decided to go for the new one, should be here Monday. I spent most of the weekend working on find a short. I have all the harnesses apart no clue? The issue now is the tractor starts up and runs fine, idles nice and runs well at fast speed. But, as soon as I turn on the PTO switch it dies? Any clues? Remember there is no PTO in the tractor and the cable is disconnected. I buzzed out most of the connections. There is one thing that is strange, the safety switch on the seat buzzes to ground on both the black wire and the gray wire with the switch out of the circuit? That doesn't make sense to me? The last thing I want to do is burn up this new PTO clutch that's coming in. Thanks Nick |
| Nick DiMeglio | Hi Dale, Just thought of something, I may have gotten the PTO switch from the John Deere 175 mixed up with the switch from the John Deere 180. Are they wired the same? Just maybe this is the cause of the grounding problem when I turn it on? I am sorry to be such a pain, but I want you to know I appreciate your help. Wanted to ask how is the weather out the in October? We were thing of a vacation out that way. Thanks again Nick |
| NICK DIMEGLIO | Today was my lucky day, I found the problem with the tractor. It did need a new PTO clutch, it should arrive tomorrow I hope. The other problem with the engine cutting off when the PTO switch is turned on, turned out to be the gray wire from the seat safety switch is shorted to ground somewhere. I will rewire it tomorrow. After 26 postings and more than a week of going nuts with this tractor, I may be able to cut my lawn with it tomorrow. Thanks again guys. Nick |
| Nick DiMeglio | Hi Dale, One other question, how do I check the charging circuit on my Kawasaki Engine? I plan on leaving the green and gray wire/connector on the key switch disconnected for now. I may rewire it later, is that ok? Looks like the circuit there just shorts out the ignitor to ground. Nick |
| nick dimeglio | Hi Dale, One other question and then I will go away, promise ! How to check the output of the alternator? 2 what is the John Deere p/n for the ignitor on a Kawasaki 540v engine? ( it has a BM11 on it? Thanks Nick |
| bontai Joe | How to check the charging circuit? Engine off, volt meter set to DC, check the voltage between the positive and neg posts on the battery, should be just above 12 volts. Then with the engine on at least 3/4 throttle, check the voltage again, should be a little above 14 volts.
|
| Nick Dimeglio | Thanks Joe, I will do that tomorrow. My crisis is over the tractor is purring like a kitten. the bottom line is , it had a short direct to ground on the gray wire( seat safety switch. I rewired it. It had a bad PTO clutch. I replaced it with a new one. It had a bad ignitor. I replaced it with one from my other tractor with a Kawsaki engine. It now runs like a Deere. Thanks guys P.S. it felt so good to cut the lawn once again!!! |
| Robert | I bought a 175 with related troubles... http://forums2.gardenweb.com/forums/load/tractor/msg0812544311844.html This thread was priceless. Turns out you can disconnect the white wire comming from the engine to over ride any safty switches.. I wouldnt say just disconnect it, and leave it that way, but I am sure it could help in trying to pin down the trouble... After all safe then sorry!
|
Post a Followup
