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Case 580C No Reverse
|Kevin||Hi ,I have power shuttle problems, casting # 10 16 065 90. I think its a Borg Warner 71c. It is stuck in forward. Put the F-R lever in neutral and it still wants to go forward. Put it in reverse and it will not move unless you rev the engine up pretty high then it will back up , and as soon as you let up on it ,it stops right now! Goes forward OK.When I put the tranny in neutral and the F-R in neutral the drive shaft still spins between the power shuttle and the tranny.
After copying and editing this post, I was able to break it free in reverse for a while. Now, can't get reverse at all.
I disconnected neutral switch and cut out solenoid, and worked the adjacent lever at linkage back and forth with no positive results.
Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated !
|AJ||It is a Borg Warner Velvet Shift shuttle that's used,the most likely thing that's wrong is the forward clutch has broken a disc and part of it has got sandwiched between the other discs keeping forward clutch engaged at all time, when reverse is selected the machine is in two gears at once and the engine would bog down,nothing much can be done with the shuttle in situ,an exchange unit is the best bet.
|Kevin||Thank you AJ for your valuable info.
Is there a chance the forward and reverse gear transmission valve may be at fault ?
|AJ||Highly unlikely,the symptom of it wanting to go forward when in neutral is a sure sign the forward clutch has a broken disc or Belleville spring sandwiched between the others having the effect of keeping the clutch engaged,the control valve can be removed with the shuttle in place,it comes out from left to right.
|Kevin||Thank you again AJ for your advice here, and in other discussions throughout this website.
Plan to use two nylon tow straps, wrapped over the engine cowling and slung under the shuttle to support it as I disconnect it from bell “torque” housing.
Also plan to attempt a shuttle rebuild. Based on 30 years of handyman and light mechanical experience, I figure there is a chance for success, if I am careful.
Found a PDF on line titled, Borg Warner “Velvet Drive Marine Transmission Service Manual Models 7OC & 71C.” It is my understanding this could be very helpful.
Two questions arise:
1. Will the torque converter remain in its
proper position within its housing as I slide
the shuttle free ?
2. Would it be a good idea to rebuild or replace
the torque converter at this time, as
preventative maintenance, since it is so
accessible with the shuttle out of the way?
|AJ||The torque will stay in place,it is a good idea when removing the shuttle to keep it level till it clears the torque as the shaft comes out through a pipe like fitting on the back of the torque,ie you don't want to let the back of the shuttle down and putting the front up,I usually use a floor jack,but no matter how you lower it keep it level,the plate the torque is mounted to can crack I usually check it even though it involves removing the bellhousing and torque,there is a special tool to use to centre the torque on the plate if you remove it,the torque is the cake type welded construction and beyond any DIY repair,I have a digital manual for the 580C,you are welcome to a copy,it is too big to email but I can upload it to a host site of your choice for you to download it,there are some after market repair kits you can buy for the shuttle,Equipment Parts Source seems to be very popular,they offer kits for less than 500,Case has an online parts catalogue at the link below,first page opens click on the Find parts by model,type in 580C only and it will bring up your hoe,go to powertrain for the shuttle.
|Kevin||Thanks AJ. I have a service manual and will start disassembly today!
|Kevin||The rebuild kit does not contain a new belelville spring, part # D50047. Should I get a replacement or use the old spring?
|AJ||I would replace the spring,what was the trouble,sorry I did not reply sooner,your post had move down out of sight on my screen,I will keep an eye on it from now.
|Kevin||1. When removing shuttle a friend let the
shuttle sag a little upon withdrawal. I’m
hoping it wasn’t too much. My fault for
letting him talk me out of using floor jack.
2. Ended up taking shuttle to highly recommended
professional, B&B Transmission, in Alaska.
They said forward plates were fused together.
Also repaired or replaced pump.
3. Now preparing to realign input shaft tangs,
using floor jack and not friends muscles.
4. Wondering if I should first somehow inspect
torque converter for possible damage,
referenced in paragraph 1 above, before
Thank you AJ for any suggestions.
|AJ||Well now that you know what the problem was it is entirely up to your self if you want to pull the torque,if it was OK before there is no reason why it won't be OK with the rebuilt shuttle,the one's I done were customers machines that came to me for repair so I was in a different position and gave them the option,plenty choose to leave the torque alone and others to pull it in most cases it was OK,use the same caution of keeping the shuttle level when offering it to engage with the torque,line up the tang of both say to a bolt hole and take it easy,move the shuttle left to right of turn the engine by hand for the tangs to engage,when you are all connected up fill the oil to the mark,start the engine on low idle and check it again,the oil will have gone down to fill the cooler,that's why the oil is checked with the engine running as the shuttle is lower than the oil cooler and the oil will run back when the engine is stopped and read high.best of luck.
|Kevin||Took some time, but installation complete and shuttle working again!
Thank you AJ for your information. It was very helpful for someone with much experience, as you, to share. It gave me needed direction to do the job. Best regards! Kevin
|AJ||No sweat glad to be able to help.
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